1st and 2nd grade Rugby at High
Musketeers of the mud, 1939
The Headmaster, Dr K A Jaggar, issued the following statement in the School’s publication, High Notes on 22 August 2008:
After receiving advice from the team doctor and after a briefing from the first XV coach and the strength and conditioning coach, I held a meeting with the senior rugby group. For reasons of duty of care and discipline, I told them that depending on their training and physical preparation we might have to forfeit the Riverview first XV game and that, thereafter I would decide at what level they would participate for the rest of the season. I stipulated that during the July holidays and in the first week of term 3, 18 adequately signed logbooks representing 3 weeks of appropriate preparation, needed to be produced for the team to face a Riverview 1st XV. Mr Scrivener’s records did not indicate that sufficient boys had done the training required by the first Wednesday of term 3. Consequently, I took the decision to withdraw High from the GPS competition in first and second grade and to seek more competitive fixtures. High played Riverview 4ths. Subsequently, the compliance with the training log regulation improved, but not enough to risk a higher level game. High played competitively against King’s 6ths, Shore 4ths and Newington 3rds. This week [23 August 2008], they will play Scots 4ths. I have indicated to Mr Scrivener that if the training regime is maintained SHS will play 1st XV against SGS in the last round.
The structural problem of mismatches at first grade level has not been solved. Dr Vallance (Head of SGS) and I, after a joint meeting with Masters-in-charge of Rugby and Heads of Sport, have agreed in principle on a solution to our rugby fixtures problem for 2009 only. Association Football will be unaffected by the arrangement. The details of the agreement were approved at a meeting of the AAGPS this week. SGS and SHS will merge rugby fixtures and follow the SGS draw for home and away fixtures. All schools except High and Grammar will have a rugby bye round. SHS v SGS will take place as usual in the last round of the competition. In the age groups 13-16, SGS will play at A-C-E level and SHS will play B-D-F teams against the four largest rugby schools (TKS, SIC, Shore, SJC). In the open grades, SGS takes 1st and 2nd grade, High will play 3rds against TKS, SIC, Shore and SJC. By agreement with the Sports Masters at SHS, TSC, NC and SGS, there will be flexibility in some fixtures for rounds 5, 6 and 7 so that, depending on the strength of our 1st XV, it may play more than one GPS fixture at first grade level next year. This can be achieved by SHS playing at 1st or 2nd XV level against the school that has the bye round in rugby when they are scheduled to play High.
The GPS Heads will have further discussions about the future structure of the GPS Rugby Competition.
Black Yoshi:
I like Dr Jaggar. He is a perfectly normal and reasonable person, even when dealing with students who deserve to be treated like students. However, he always seems to end up making the wrong decisions on policy. Including this one. It is unfortunate.
25 August 2008, 12:34 amdr.John Reddish:
A very sad day for SHS !!!!
25 August 2008, 9:23 amSteve:
What a disgrace that GPS tradition and history has been sacrificed for the last 15 years to focus on academic intake which was always well above average in terms of HSC results in the first place.
Participation in the GPS is a privilege that most colleagues wish to emulate and have had that opportunity.
This school has always prided itself on it sporting prowess and achievements which have now been belittled by not even being able to field a competitive 1st of 2nd grade side ! Beaten 112-0 should never have been allowed to happen.
We finished equal 2nd and 3rd in 1st grade in my senior years and fail to understand the decline that has occurred.
Its time to make some hard decisions and make Saturday sport compulsory again. Who knows, it may even be helpful to focus on sport and develop social skills / friendships that will last a lifetime for even the most academic of students.
Lets hope next year there will be no need to forfeit any games let alone the whole season or play other schools 4th grade teams !
25 August 2008, 10:15 amAnthony Cordato:
Message to the Headmaster -
The decline of SHS Rugby at the top level is presented as a crisis, but in reality, has been a train wreck a long time comming.
What is to be done? Allow the decline to continue, or take action? From my perspective, action must be taken. After all, there is no sense in having a mens sana without a corpore sano! Allow me to make a suggestion.
My suggestion is that it should be made a condition of attendance for every SHS pupil to play a winter sport - whether it is rugby, football (soccer), hockey, cross country racing, it does not matter. Obviously, this must be introduced with the concurrence of the Department, and might only be able to be introduced gradually, because SHS is a public school. With the Department’s assistance, all offers of places at SHS should henceforth include a condition of attendance that the pupil will be required to play a winter sport, with only summer sport to be optional. The Department should confirm that if a pupil has taken a place on this condition and does not comply with the condition, then the pupil can be excluded from sitting for examinations. I claim no originality for this policy - it is already the rule in many private schools.
Having taken the long way round to make the point, allow me to express my point simply. If every pupil were required to play a winter sport, there would be a greater depth of players, and more competitive teams for rugby, football and the like, and SHS will be able to display on the playing fields some of the class it shows in the academic fields.
Please pass this message on to the Headmaster.
25 August 2008, 10:23 amadmin:
The School’s current enrolment policy (including the “expanded” criteria for entry into Years 8-11) may be found at http://www.sydneyboyshigh.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=85
25 August 2008, 10:24 amadmin:
The Headmaster advises:
25 August 2008, 10:25 amIn summer, 77.5% of the students engaged in a competitive team sport with a Saturday / weekend component. In winter 85% of those registered played a winter sport.
In rugby , 156 players in ages 13-16. Association Football (Soccer) 255 players in ages 13-16.
Figures for 2008: Open rugby 32. Open football 79. Open Volleyball 21.
R.F.CALLAGHAN:
Maybe SHS should look at a more balanced entry format into the school. Academic qualities should not be the only source of entry. When High was a selective school from the local and peripheral schools nominations were not based on exams alone. That’s many years ago but good still exists in the old system. It depends I guess on what the future has for High. It was always competitive in past & with planning could be so again.
25 August 2008, 2:58 pmrobert darroch:
What does this mean?
“SGS and SHS will merge rugby fixtures and follow the SGS draw for home and away fixtures.”
Does it mean that SHS and SGS will combine as one team and still play first grade as a merged team?
R
25 August 2008, 8:04 pmadmin:
The SHS and SGS teams will be distributed across the fixtures each Saturday and will remain separate. Grammar will field the 1st and 2nd grade teams, High the 3rd grade, etc.
25 August 2008, 8:05 pmjohn fraser:
Like all old boys I look forward to the time when SHS can compete in 1st XV and 2nd XV.
25 August 2008, 8:41 pmArron Mann:
SHS has always been a show case of all things educational, whether it be academic, sport, or the arts, but it appears the balance is now lost.
26 August 2008, 9:44 amThe NSW Education System has Selective High Schools, and it also has Sports High Schools, so why can’t SHS be both ? The best of the best. As recently as the 90s we had students representing Australian School Boys in Rugby who were also gaining Uni entry. Shouldn’t the aim of the school be to produce well rounded young men that can excel in a range of things, instead of aiming to produce one trick ponies ?
Personally, my career and personal life has seen more benefits from what I learnt in sport at SHS, than I did in the class room.
The only way to get it back is to make a change for Year 7, and wait 5-6 years for them to come through. But will the GPS be bothered to wait for us when there is still indecision ?
David Kite:
I am absolutely appalled!!
26 August 2008, 3:40 pmSHS “Once were GPS Premiers”.
The SHS that existed a generation ago allowed not only for a mix of pupils across a broad social spectrum, but an even broader academic/sports spectrum. This mix, coupled with CHS competition on a Wednesday and GPS competition on a Saturday, gave rise to a culture at SHS that I enjoyed immensely at the time and until this day harbour very fond memories of. It also provided me with a well rounded education, which has held me in good stead throughout a much varied, exciting and successful life and for which I am extremely grateful.
I accept that change is inevitable, however, there is one constant and that is human nature. In order for any individual to reach his full potential he must be exposed to many varied situations, not closeted away.
What a shame to have allowed some bureaucratic do gooder to bugger up a perfectly good educational model.
I’d like to direct the powers that be to a quote by Theodore Roosevelt, which concludes with……………”so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither defeat nor victory”.
Luke Mann:
As an old boy I share the comments of pretty much all on this site. The decline of SHS rugby to the point of effectively pulling out of season 2008, and our 1st XV / 2nd XV to become the equivalent of Sydney Grammars’ 3rd XV and 4th XV is sickening.
High have not always been the best at rugby but every time someone was selected for the 1st XV/ 2nd XV they were filled with pride and played their hearts out. Natural talent is not the key dimension in school boy rugby though helpful, being well drilled, dedicated and having self belief are the fundamental drivers to competitiveness. These same skills can be applied in life, study, work etc - the most talented person does not always achieve the best results as those that have things come easy to them do not always respect the rewards. I would hope even with our current crop of pupils we can build a desire for success in all avenues - being a member of the GPS is a privilege that I hope SHS can maintain.
26 August 2008, 9:48 pmJoseph Waugh:
Thank you to all Old Boys who have taken the time to make comments and to show their support for the School at this difficult time.
Just a couple of points to add to the debate:
My time as president of the School Council and, now, as President of the OBU has brought me into contact, on numerous occasions, with the GPS Headmasters, Chairs of the GPS School Councils, and presidents and delegates of the GPS OBUs. There is no question of their strong commitment to a GPS that includes Sydney High School. This position comes not just from a respect for tradition, but also from a genuine respect for us as the representative of the State system of education. There is also no doubt that the support for the GPS displayed by generations of High boys, parents, teachers and old boys will continue.
Rugby sometimes tends to attract too great a degree of attention in the GPS. High is competitive in many of the other GPS sports and activities. Yet a crisis for Rugby very quickly comes to be perceived as a crisis for GPS sport at High. This is not the case.
Rugby, whether we like it or not, is the only sport that attracts a serious duty of care to ensure the safety of participants. This duty of care can only be discharged by appropriate training. Hence the Headmaster’s action.
There is evidence that the skills and resistance training regime that has been rolled out at the School over the last few years is gradually paying off. The 16As have been extremely competitive in their competition this year, defeating Newington last weekend to record High’s first win in a proper A vs A match for a long time.
Our competitiveness in other sports is also being prepared for. The Headmaster has announced that boys in first and second grade and all A and B teams will from now also be required to complete training logs for basketball, cricket and rowing.
How can Old Boys help?
Sports development donations (tax deductible) can be made specifically for the rugby program (or any other sport). Details are available by clicking on “donations” on the left-hand menu on the School’s website: http://www.sydneyboyshigh.com
And please turn up and support the 1st XV when it does take to the field. I will ensure that Old Boys are kept informed about the status of this Saturday’s match against Grammar at McKay.
26 August 2008, 11:15 pmSimon McNamara:
It was only as matter of time before this decision was made, those of us who have spent the last few years looking in the cricket scores to see what has been racked up against us on Saturdays will not be surprised. The question is what is the school going to do to fix this problem. We have such great facilities, new gyms, rowing sheds etc surely we can put together programs to help our rugby players obtain the required body types they need to play the positions they want. There is such a great tradition in this school that many are proud of, we need to look at ways to make sure the students coming into the school understand that the school is a part of the GPS and provides an all round education that includes competitive Saturday sports, whatever they are.
Whilst I understand that the school is competitive in other sports and that there is always a down cycle in rugby ours seems to have been going on for approximately 15 years and the time has come for some decisions to be made. Most old boys can remember the times when we not only had Australian schoolboys but also Ben Lexcen scholars and boys who were at the same time getting high 90’s TER.
Let’s look at getting the programs in place to make sure we are providing these guys the best training and advice they can get so we can continue to be competitive in every area of the school and develop these boys into well balanced young men who are proud of being a Sydney High Boy.
All of us Old Boys also need to make sure that we remain supportive of our school and involve ourselves in whatever way we can, so the students can see the family they are a part of.
Woops there goes my soap box. Keep the dream alive
27 August 2008, 11:09 amcurrent student:
Can the old boys stop shifting the blame onto the 1st XV players, we train 6 times a week foregoing all other activities to make sure we can field a team on Saturdays, it’s not our fault we can’t produce the depth required to produce competitive competitive open grade teams. It is unfortunate that our year should suffer from being pulled out of the 1st grade competition, however nothing is more depressing than training 6 times a week to be beaten extremely convincingly by another school and then being told we won’t be playing in the competition indefinitely.
However we are playing Grammar 1st grade this weekend at 3.15pm on McKay 1- so to all you old boys who can comfortably talk big behind your computer screens show your true passion and support for the school you claim to love oh so much by being behind perhaps one of the most courageous and unfortunate 1st XVs ever to don the blue and brown.
28 August 2008, 9:52 pmadmin:
As a curtain raiser - the 16As will be taking to the field against the Grammar 16As at 2pm - so why not make an afternoon of it?
28 August 2008, 10:24 pmPeter Goldman:
As an old boy myself, father of an old boy and now grandparent of a current year 10 student (and disappointed rugby player ) may I compliment Dr Jaggar and his co-planners on a very courageous and pragmatic solution to the current rugby problem. I, like many of the current rugby community at the school, certainly hope that it will only be a very short-lived one and that planning and increased participation and effort will again allow us to compete fairly, safely and equitably with other teams.
This day will certainly arrive quicker if other old boys and past members of the school community encourage their families and friends to push for entrance to the school in subsequent school years, even if not successful in year seven. It is my understanding that is now towards more balanced selection criteria in later years subject of course to appropriate academic criteria.
28 August 2008, 11:26 pmLuke Mann:
A pity “Current Student” has taken the comments above as a personal attack against the current 1st XV.
I think all comments made to date have been supportive - of SHS and looking to improve our rugby tradition. 6 sessions a week is an impressive amount of effort with little reward to date. I hope this weekend SHS 1st XV see a good match and a win if possible.
The points raised are definitely not meant to be personal in nature. The decline in SHS rugby is not a year 2008 issue but one that has evolved over time
I know that my year was very lucky to have a quality head coach - Tony Hannon and the willing assistance throughout the year by numerous Wallabies and Waratahs to hone our training and skills.
28 August 2008, 11:30 pmA.M.Gainford:
As Hon Secretary of the AAGPS I wish to assure all interested parties that current arrangements for High Rugby, and those set down for next year, are strictly temporary. The reasons for next year’s arrangements include concerns of duty of care in poorly matched encounters, but are also related to the difficulty of arranging matches for the boys at larger schools when they are matched against High and Grammar. This situation is exacerbated by the decision of the CAS not to follow the GPS in moving back to an autumn athletics season, and to adopt a Home and Away two rounds scheme this season. We are proud to field 14 voluntary Rugby teams, whereas SIC, for instance, has 40 (not necessarily voluntary). Old Boys may remember that in 1983 we fielded 21 teams, probably the greatest number ever, in the absence of GPS Soccer, and with an enrollment of about 800 (currently about 1150).
Other schools will be involved in filling out our fixture list in future years, including possibly Hurlestone Ag, TAS, St Patrick’s Strathfield, and so on.
The fact that we have four 13s teams for the first time in at least ten years, together with the success of the current 16As, and the ever-changing demographic, bode well for the future.
But the key point is that the other member schools of the AAGPS are totally supportive of High’s plans to rejoin the competitions in first and second grade Rugby as soon as possible, and are doing everything within their power to bring it about.
29 August 2008, 1:09 amPaul Veltman (1975):
In my view, the main reasons for SHS being in its current situation in relation to rugby are as follows:
1. In order to save on substantial private high school fees, some parents have insisted that their children (a) be tutored in order to pass the selective high school tests and (b) not waste their time on non-academic experiences. This not implying that all current or recent SHS students had to be tutored into SHS.
2. For many years, many public primary school teachers and many parents have believed that tutoring should not take place to prepare for the selective high school tests and have instead believed that their students/children should have both academic and non-academic experiences, including playing sport and having fun. Consequently, many students with this background, although intelligent, did not bother to sit for the selective high school tests or were not as prepared as others when they sat for the tests. However, many of these students go on to perform academically at SHS standards at private and other public high schools.
3. Consequently, compared with the past and other public and private high schools, Sydney Boys High now appears to suffer from having a disproportionately low percentage of students with rugby experience and non-academic experiences. Once again, this is not implying that there is no rugby or other non-academic skills in SHS.
3. Rightly or wrongly, SHS now has a reputation of being an academically strong school but not as well rounded or enjoyable as it used to be.
4. Consequently, SHS is now not sought after by many primary or high school students who have non-academic strengths, including rugby and other physical strengths, even though they are also academically strong.
The recent selective high school entry tests have not been a good gauge of a student’s abilities. For example, one of my fellow alumni was told by the local primary school not to bother to have his daughter sit the year 6 entry test for SHS - so she didn’t sit for the entry test. About 3 years later she got into SHS and is in the middle of the grade at SHS in terms of academic results!
The current situation can adversely impact the careers of SHS students if not addressed. For example, for nearly 30 years, I have worked at some of the largest employers of top university graduates and have been actively involved with hiring and mentoring those graduates as employees. I and the vast majority of my work colleagues have recognised for many years that people who were only academically strong at school can perform well at work for the first 3 to 5 years, but more often than not, end up reporting for much of their careers to those who had developed team working skills in playing sport in the high school years.
Rugby is a sport which requires a great amount of ball skills, fitness, self-belief and most importantly team work and being able to out think your opponents, especially when you are relatively small.
With a more even spread of students with academic and non-academic experiences and strengths, then SHS’s reputation in rugby, as an enjoyable school and in other areas should improve which should create an upward spiral that leads to the school becoming back in favour with a wider spectrum of students and parents.
29 August 2008, 2:05 amStuart Dykstra:
The steady deterioration of SHS rugby has been in progress for over 15 years and from an outside perspective little has been done to correct this. As an old boy and former 1st XV player (of minimal talent), my time at the school was one of equilibrium with an appreciation of both academia and sports (in all areas of sport not just rugby), which in turn helped create a more rounded, socially skilled individual.
(To this day I still benefit from the contacts made particularly with former players from other GPS schools through being part of what was a highly respected rugby program).
With regards to “Current Student” I am disappointed for you and that you have been let down by the administration of the school which has created this situation and seemingly done very little over a long period of time to address this issue.
The current enrolment policy has been in place since 2001 (revised in 2003) yet the rugby program has continued to deteriorate, as such has the selection committee truly focused on addressing this problem..? 5-7 years to turn things around yet we are going backwards… is this an acceptable result and if no what is being done to correct the situation..??
29 August 2008, 5:24 amadmin:
Until last year, the vast majority of entrants under the “expanded” enrolment policy entered in Year 11. Last year, for the first time, the Headmaster convinced the Department to allow 20 boys to enter in Year 9. This arrangement, which only commenced this year, will allow the new entrants considerably more time to integrate into all school activities.
29 August 2008, 5:25 amJustin Walls:
I am very saddened to read the above comments and the Headmaster’s comments. I have never been embarrassed of our school and hold my memories with pride, I only hope the young fellas in the 1st XV can do the same this year. Rugby is not only a 1st XV game and should be nurtured throughout a boys lifetime at High. I am happy to hear that the 16a’s are excelling I only hope that the likes of Mr. Outterside and Mr Hannon’s legacy will live on somewhere in high. I cannot make this weekends fixture as I am OS, however i would encourage all OB’s especially 86 to attend this weekends game at McKay.
29 August 2008, 6:06 amKamil:
I’ve been following the fate of SHS sport since I graduated a number of years ago. I’m not sure what reason there would be for it. The intake when I was there was excellent academically. We were also quite competitive in a lot of sports, including Rugby.
Perhaps participation is one aspect of it as I see notice that we aren’t fielding as many teams. Each age group, back in the mid 90s, would field at least 2, most of the time 3 teams in soccer and rugby. We fared reasonably, didn’t always win, but both the wins and losses helped shape my character. Many old boys who participated will know what I’m talking about. In fact I remember that I ended up playing Rugby because Mr Outterside was disappointed that there were only enough players to field 2 teams in the 13s age group in 1990. I ended up putting my name down and never regretted it.
Its sad to see that we’ve declined to this level, and current players working their hearts out should not feel we are putting them down. However, the school should be worried about what will happen to the education they’re providing to the students. Years after we leave Sydney High, its not the exam marks we remember. Some of us will remember the trials on the field, on the water etc and we wouldn’t trade those for anything. And I can tell you personally that those who were pure bookworms don’t seem to be as successful in the real world as those who were well rounded.
Perhaps the school ought to increase the weight of consideration given to students who are willing to participate in more than just the classroom. There are plenty of students with the intelligence to attend a selective high school. Surely some of them are also willing to contribute outside of the classroom.
29 August 2008, 6:42 amRecent old boy:
I graduated from SHS recently and though I am not big (in size) nor greatly skilled at rugby I did play and enjoy the sport, for a number of years while I was at high.
In the past few years, basically while I was at SHS, High rugby has been in decline. Personally I believe it is due to the lack of depth in the boys who choose to play rugby, many like me first came in contact with rugby for the first time in their junior years, this combined with the decline in the number of boys who play rugby resulted in teams where a large number of players who through no fault of their own were playing opponents who could read the game better and (maybe) have better skills than they do.
While that is true all the boys I have known who play rugby turned up to training sessions and worked hard all the time, I know people who are still at SHS and some of them tell me Dr Jagger’s decision was made due to the fact that some of the boys who signed up and were chosen to play 1st’s did not complete a log book which recorded the number of times they trained a week. To me that says that these boys are not dedicated and should not be playing 1st’s. Having said that I think Dr Jagger has made the wrong decision to merge SHS with Grammar next year as the boys who are playing 1st’s next year may train hard and produce plenty of good results.
To the “current student” that posted above I do not wish to offend you or your mates that turn up to training week in, week out. However I do feel ashamed that our school has now produced boys that are given the honor of playing 1st’s Rugby only to let down their coach and their supporters by not going to training.
As for how we ended up in this situation in the first place I believe is the fault of the school administration, as far as I know the last time High won a 1st XV rugby game was in 2001, and that we were competitive during the 1990’s which was a bit before my time. The question I pose to the school’s administration is what is the difference between then and now? Why were we producing good players back then but not now? What has changed? Why has it changed? But most importantly why has it not been fixed?
29 August 2008, 9:43 amRod Mitchell:
From my perspective of being in a profession where I act for or act against or am in front of “Old Boys” from the GPS schools, it is all too sad to hear and see in the papers commentary about what is happening. I know the players train hard and are committed. They would not do anything else but put in their best efforts. I do not think any one doubts this.
What is needed is more than just being part of the great tradition. There has to be a plan of some sought to revive the numbers of boys from a diverse range of backgrounds to attend the greatest public school in New South Wales. I have friends as we all do, from Joeys to Iggies and the rest of the GPS schools, whose very same schools encourage boys from a variety and diversity of backgrounds to attend these institutions of learning. It is about learning not only academic work, but about life in the school and outside the school. Playing sport is integral to the development of most boys.
Let the powers that be, consider intakes of boys from these backgrounds.
The other GPS schools would like nothing better than to have a hard and fair game against SHS. Let the powers that be give those boys an opportunity.
Over the years, I have seen the other GPS schools expand their numbers of students. Perhaps as well, the SHS should really expand in size and numbers.
29 August 2008, 10:21 amRichard:
Oh Dear, what a dreary bunch of yesterday’s men you all are.
Times have changed, toffee nose is out, young boys marching up and down a parade ground after school in cammo gear is out and compulsory anything is certainly out.
Have you tried asking the students what they want? Oh a gasp, no, couldn’t do that. Not SHS, a GPS institution with traditions and stuffiness dating back to Queen Victoria.
Rugby is on the decline Australia-wide, not just at SHS. Rowing, as evidenced by our showing at the Olympics is not far behind.
Soccer is the new Rugby. Perhaps a little more forward thinking is due at SHS.
Soccer, swimming, pole vault, now these are sports worth playing and watching.
Don the brown and blue for that, or is that not what SHS is all about?
29 August 2008, 1:23 pmLuke:
I grew up in a country town. Having got into my share of trouble from years 7-10, my parents thought it best that I move to live with my Grandfather in Sydney. Not having the academic background of my peers I struggled through year 11 and in year 12 managed to score 400 in the HSC. I had never picked up a footy before I snuck into the school through the back door as my Godfather was a teacher. Can academic promise for kids who have not always had the best opportunities be an entry criteria?
I played Rugby from age 15 to 30 and the confidence I have in dealing with people from all backgrounds was what I gained most from the school. Maybe we need to get a few kids with a bit of mongrel into the school, as a bit of discipline (ie. training) is often all they need to turn their lives around.
Are all kids that can’t pass a selective schools test not worth the honour of attending SHS? Let the cloisters (I can’t spell but I can lift heavy things) ring again.
Good luck Saturday. I wish I was in Sydney to attend. All you other old boys get down there.
29 August 2008, 4:43 pmDavid:
Most old boys from the 80’s and 90’s have seen this coming, although the pain of arrival is no less.
It seems to me to be a matter of diversity, simple as the diversity that is sought in many professional and personal fields of endeavour. Programmed learning of 10-12 year olds to achieve a test result which places them, for the remainder of their childhood, amongst mainly similarly doctrinated children is no way to develop a man.
There is an old African proverb that says … “it takes a village to develop a child” … which absolutely rings rings true in the most modern and seemingly advanced society.
What kind of “village” are we offering these boys within a school of so many selected clones?
Where they are willing to play rugby and make the sacrifices it requires, and from some comments above have the natural desire for battle, but seem to be denied the sheer joy of success that a team in a contact sport can only give you. This is a great way to develop pride and gain respect that the greatest public school in our city should be offering our children.
I hope that the education department is taking note of what is happening here and realise that they owe our children a better opportunity and the chance for life skills that they can keep for ever.
I will be there tomorrow and singing loudly and proudly … “come rally round boys young and old …”
29 August 2008, 5:41 pmKamil:
To the commenter Richard above. If you look at the number of teams fielded in Soccer, its not faring much better than Rugby. Contrary to any pre-conceived notion, High has never looked unfavourably upon so called non-traditional sports. I, and every old boy, would be glad to see increased participation in any sport.
29 August 2008, 7:42 pmKamil:
My apologies, I was looking at the wrong information. It appears we are in fact fielding quite a few soccer teams. It’s heartening to see at least some level of participation.
29 August 2008, 7:58 pmPhilip Gerber (1972):
Elitism in sport, academics and many other things is killing SHS at both ends.
Most of us are somewhere in the middle of the bell curve and all have something to offer.
Shame on the private GPS schools for obsessing about their sport.
Shame on SHS and other public selective schools for obsessing about their academics, arts, or other specialisations.
What’s wrong with letting all participate in a range of activities for their childhood and youth? Let the specialisation and elitism occur in adulthood where it belongs.
29 August 2008, 8:02 pmSam:
Rowing is out, pole vault in… Let’s get realistic!
All supporters of High Rugby must accept that the current culture / student in-take at SHS does not lend itself to a successful rugby program. Simple.
With regards to other schools such as Hurlestone Ag, TAS, St Patrick’s filling our void….c’mon…how embarrassing and to be honest do Joeys really care if High play or not..? If they are seriously investing time in this area then I would question their allocation of resources.
If we are to participate then it must be 100% otherwise let’s cut our losses and focus on sports that match the socio cultural demographic of the majority of students.
29 August 2008, 10:53 pmKamil:
A couple of commentators are talking about the ‘background’ of the current crop of students as some reason for decreased participation. That is nothing more than a stereotype. The so-called race issue has come up in the past before and ends up being framed in a rather ugly fashion.
The results of the last Olympics should show that results have nothing to do with the racial background of the participants. Furthermore, all of the other GPS schools are maintaining their participation with students of the same ‘cultural’ background as those at High. It has nothing to do with who is at the school in terms of culture/socio-economic background etc. Its about who is willing to participate in all that High has to offer, not just those who are coming there to join some sort of HSC factory.
30 August 2008, 10:00 amJ:
I was at High in the 80’s and I’ve been watching the rapid decline of Rugby at this school. What is the solution here? As a start, I’d be looking at offering Rugby scholarships to build the base again. We’ve done it before! (There was a fellow we brought in from Waverley College). Bring in some ball players and enforcers and offer fewer places for propeller heads.
1 September 2008, 8:40 amL:
I remember the last time Sydney high beat Joeys. Maybe I should play the race card. Sydney High won at Joeys 17-6 (or there abouts). The hooker of Korean origin pummeled the Joeys front row and the halfback Brendan Seeto (Chinese origin?) chipped and chased and scored the first try in the corner.
2 September 2008, 12:57 pmRichard ( Rick ) Poole:
I hate to admit this, but many of us could see this happening. It was only a matter of time. High’s teams were gradually falling behind with their ability to win matches. Each year continued to get worse.
My feelings amongst many other old boys is that the selection criteria have changed so much over the past years that with the present situation High has basically lost what ever edge it had to be able to put together a strong 1st grade Rugby team.
The selection criteria for the school should be far broader than just academic if it wants to re-establish itself in the Rugby competitions.
3 September 2008, 7:53 pm.....:
I love how everyone is quick to offer suggestions on how to fix the problem but no one puts up their hand. If you look at High’s rugby program against another GPS schools program you will see the problem.
And just a note. Sport is compulsory, and High is a selective school and the school has little to no choice on whom comes to the school. The problem isn’t going to be fixed with a flick of a switch.
I’m tired of reading all the forums and comments made about High rugby. Yet I am yet to see a person put their hand up and help, there is so much wrong with the whole rugby program. And I think people need to look a bit further into the problem before they comment.
4 September 2008, 12:16 amAndrew Killion:
As an old boy who played rugby from 88-94 when High was very competitive, who coached at High in 96-97 and also continued playing at colts and (lower) grade level I am equally dismayed and disappointed by this turn of events.
What I would like to see is some more input from any current students, teachers and parents who may be following this discussion. It is easy to form nice theories from afar (Chicago in my case..) but it would be nice to hear what is actually going on.
I’d like to thank the current student who contributed to this discussion and ask him to encourage his mates to express their opinions and fill us in on what life at High is like these days?
4 September 2008, 7:20 amCJ:
Sad, but change is inevitable. I think what is missing is an acceptance that Rugby is a pretty brutal sport, and skills such as teamwork, camaraderie, companionship, dedication and hard work can all be learned in less combative ways.
But I do agree that the objective should be to promote a well-rounded and complete education, of which all those qualities others have spoken of are important. Perhaps we should focus on those sports that SHS is currently strong in, and encourage them further.
23 September 2008, 1:01 amPeter Kovac ('91):
After reading all the commentary, seeing more than a few familiar names, the one thing that becomes incredibly apparent to me and the one thing that perhaps we as old boys (and well-wishers) should take inspiration from is the amazing amount of passion diplayed.
Fellows who have been out of school for 10, 20 and 30 plus years yet still having such a concern for the school’s wellbeing is outstanding. That sort of feeling must be bred by their own wonderful and unique experience as a pupil of High and a desire for others (maybe their own sons) to be able to experience something similar. (It certainly is for me). I do wonder if some such similar spirit is felt amongst current pupils or those who have matriculated in recent years.
It is just this sort of sentiment that we should be trying to foster.
Many people fail to understand the real underlying themes in this discussion are much, much more than just about playing rugby - and this is why it is really affecting so many old boys. The current rugby crisis is seen as a reflection of a bigger picture in which genuine change to core values which impact upon the school’s identity are occurring. This is certainly at least the perception. Part of the experience at High has been being a part of a long, proud history and tradition, this is what is seen to be undermined here.
Take heart from all the genuine concern and goodwill on these pages - it does sound like some steps are being taken to address these problems. I, like many others I’m sure, have hope that the rugby program and the school can be resurrected to its former greatness.
22 October 2008, 12:24 pmDrew Hoare:
As a former captain of the school’s first XV (’04) (and extremely proud old boy) I feel a similar dismay at what is currently occurring at the school. But also being in the privileged position of having coached at Sydney High the last two years I feel I can offer some insight into what is occurring. Some of what has been said above does have a semblance of truth, the rest is essentially incorrect, it is at least ill-informed.
First, I can assure you from the trainings I supervise and the games I watch, the boys are playing with as much conviction and pride as ever. Therefore I urge old boys not to doubt or question the effort of the boys currently representing Sydney High on the football fields week in, week out. Unless of course they willing to come down on a Saturday and make an objective decision for themselves.
On to the issue at hand. The fact is that, regardless of what has happened over the last few years, systems and processes having been put in place to improve the quality of the program. Expert coaches have been sourced, the equipment used is second to none, training is actually structured for the juniors (compared to the ad hoc nature of training during the 90’s), and overall the so-called ‘administration’ of the school have done a very good job in attempting to create an environment through which rugby can foster.
The problem, as some have alluded to above, is talent. I am not referring to your Craig Wings, Marc Sterchbinas, Lawson Donalds, Mark Sweeneys, Steve Irwins, or Grant Houldsworths. I am simply alluding to players with an adequate level of basic rugby ability. It is generally agreed upon that, for a rugby team to be competitive, it ideally would have as minimum: two - three extremely strong players, another eight - nine of decent ability, and a few more to fill in the numbers. The problem that I experienced both at High by both playing and coaching, is that there simply are not enough players coming into the school with rugby experience. Of my cohort in year 7 only myself, my brother and three other boys had ever player rugby before. It is almost impossible to compete when this is the case because, as most of you would know, the boys in the ‘A’ teams of other schools have been playing for 4-5 years already, and there is simply no chance that the training, regardless of how effective is, could ever be possible of improving players to a comparable level in the short period of high school. Luckily enough for myself and my team-mates, we managed to remain highly competitive at 1st grade level because we had the benefit of a few strong players, and a team that possessed a genuine desire to train and play beyond their ability (even though there were only roughly 25-30 boys in year 12 that played rugby).
I do not mean to grandstand and relive the glory days of years gone by (as many old boys still do, even in the comments above); I am merely trying to present the facts as objectively as possible. This brings us to the obvious question of what can we do to improve the situation? I would like to say first and foremost that Dr Jaggar is doing an admirable job in attempting to steer the schools rugby program out of this difficult period. Clearly he is in a somewhat unenviable position, but I can assure any of the doubters (that have had no experience with the school in the last decade or so) that he shares exactly the same interests that we all do and would love nothing more to see the school’s rugby program restored to its former glory (or least, respectability).
The obvious answer is ‘get better players into the school’, ideally in the formative years (pre-year 10). Clearly, this is easier said than done. The problem is that, as mentioned above, this has only been an option for the last two years. Previously, Old Boys who had sons that had missed out on selection into the school in year 7 had had to wait till year 11 to apply again. This has been rectified by the school’s new extended enrolment process for years 8-11, whereby students who have abilities in fields other than academia may now apply, there is also special consideration (I believe), for relatives of Old Boys. This action is timely and should ultimately be of great benefit to the schools rugby program but an immediate problem exists. The school’s reputation (and especially its rugby program) have been denigrated to such an extent by the media and other sources that there are not many quality rugby players that actually want to come to the school. I will pose a hypothetical situation for you: A player of some ability is playing for Waverley’s 13a’s, he lives in the school’s local area at Paddington. He has played representative club football before attending that school. What incentive does he have to come to Sydney High, when told of the new selection arrangement by a friend or family member? The image that he conjures in his mind is one of losing most games by large margins, playing with inexperienced team-mates, and potentially not even being able to play for the first XV. Let it be clear that I am not in anyway attacking this school’s system, rather representing a scenario that was described to me by a number of parents of GPS old boys I have discussed the current predicament with. The school is doing its part in its extensive marketing of the school’s qualities.
OLD BOYS: This is where you must assume some responsibility. Everyone is happy to give their two cents on how the school could improve its program, but no one is actually willing to help in some way. I chose, and I understand there are certain feasibility constraints that affect others’ ability to do so, to coach at the school. Whilst I agree this is not an option for most, there is something else Old Boys can do.
I know for a fact that there are a large number of old boys that shall be reading this and other correspondence relating to the rugby matter that will be having to make decisions, now or in the future, on where their children shall be attending high school (SHS Old Boys Circa 1980 if I’m not mistaken). It is your responsibility to actively promote the school’s virtues and, if you all really do believe in the aforementioned commentary, make the decision to enrol your son/s in this fine educational institution. Many Old Boys have previously complained that the option was not available to them (to send their boys to Sydney High if they did not gain entry through the selective schools test), but Dr Jaggar and the education department have now made it possible. In essence, if Old Boys are still truly passionate about the school and genuinely believe in its future, they will make the important decision to send their sons to Sydney High. I urge you to do so as I can assure you that all the barriers for future Sydney High rugby success have been removed, the program has been structured to cultivate rugby development, it simply needs that one last element vital to achieve its goals: talent.
To those old boys not yet at the stage of their lives where they are required to make a decision on where to send their children to school, you too can still play a role by actively promoting the school and being vocal about how proud you are to have attended Sydney High. I believe this is the only way to improve the schools image, one that has been somewhat tarnished in recent years. This is the only way forward for Sydney High rugby.
One more note, in regards to the nameless student that appeared to represent the interests of this years first XV. I know for a fact that one of the reasons why the team was removed from competition by Dr Jaggar was that only a handful of players were training at the ‘adequate level’. Nobody was training six days a week (the gym does not count). When I was at school, a core part of training was Sunday morning fitness with Les Robinson; this has been discontinued in recent years, because of players simply not being interested/bothered to do it. The current crop of senior players (excluding a hand-full that did do the required amount of training even when the majority had given up) must take some responsibility for their performance this season. The committed players know who they are; the others did not represent the efforts of the rest of the school’s rugby program, as discussed above.
5 November 2008, 11:37 am